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31 October 2009 @ 09:41 am
NARUTO CHAPTER 469  
Dear Kishimoto Masashi,

I honestly have nothing to say in defense of Sakura this time. Perhaps it was because she was protecting Naruto, or because she’s oh-so-hurt torn emotionally in so many places – to me, this chapter simply shows that:

SHE STILL HAS ZERO EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE AFTER ALL THIS TIME.

Yes, even after that epic fight against Sasori with Chiyo, her taking a fatal blow for Chiba, that all-encompassing punch to Sasori’s face, all her kickass physical and mental training with Tsunade, her quiet, poignant embrace of Naruto before the entire village after Pain. And there were small, wonderful things in Part 1, too – her fight with Ino – her whole backstory with Ino, getting out of her shell to become the boisterous, assertive tween bitch she was at the start of the series, and her building appreciation for Naruto -

So apparently, Kishi, you’ve overturned everything - built Sakura’s character up all this way for nothing?

And why do you have to put Sakura in a position where all that matters to her character development is whether or not she has romantic feelings for the two protagonists in the series, anyway? Because if this contributes to her own development of her sense of self, or the characterization of Team 7 as a whole, then I understand.

Two things:

Either

1) Kishi, you’re a genius, you really are, because Sakura reads like a NANA character. Her story and development as a character is excruciating to watch because she is so human, so f-ing real. Real people make mistakes. Real people have real flaws, real faults, real, unlovable faults, that aren’t just rendered as part of archetypes (e.g. Shikamaru is a sloth, Chouji is a glutton and not-all-that-good-looking, Sasuke has an absolutely sexy teen angst revenge blood murder complex going on). Real people make mistakes, make stupid mistakes, over and over again. i.e. Kishi, everything you’ve done for Sakura so far is purposive; you’re going to continue building her slowly, slowly, painfully, so that by the end of the series she’ll go through the ultimate BLOSSOMING and completely redeem herself – at least she’ll still be the most 3-D character. (…actually, did I mention how tired I am of the stereotypical flower metaphors?)

Or

2) But really, no, Kishi, the argument above does not hold because you’ve never ever extended similar detailed treatment to any of your other male characters. You just keep blaming Sakura again and again, over and over, and I’m sick of your sexism.

I think serialization also has a part to play in all this.

I don't like what Sakura did here. It was completely the wrong thing to do, and, oh, Naruto... Though I still love her. I really do. That’s partly because I do always root for the underdog, and also because I have my feminist side. Part 2 Sakura was awesome. Until 469.

It's just that, Kishi, you still suck at writing females. Or, should I say, you absolutely suck at giving fair treatment to BOTH your male and female characters.

I do wonder why I still continue following this series despite feeling betrayed week after week. But I can’t help but remember all the amazing characters and character situations you set up. So many of the characters were so brilliant, had so much potential, in the beginning. Yes, even the female ones. And yes, I do accept the fact that they’ll always be sidelined in the Naruto verse. I’ve learnt to deal with your misogyny.

But I do not see your point with Chapter 469 this time.

Don’t tell me it’s an issue of genre (‘shounen’ vs ‘shoujo’ manga). That is too easy an answer, if it’s even an answer at all. The problem runs deeper than that.

In short, Kishi, I blame you.

I'll continue reading this series, if only because I don't let go easily.

Yours,
[info]fated_bliss

---

(Oh, did I mention how amused I am by the 469 commentaries on the respective pairing forums? I love Naruto/Sakura, but at least I'm trying for an objective viewpoint. Sakura 'deserved' the bashing. Is all.)

If anyone has recommendations for anime/manga series that aren't embedded in such blatant misrepresenations or under-representation of strong female characters, please let me know. >:(

edit: THIS.
 
 
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( 19 comments — Post a new comment )
dictionary girl: once and for all[info]windstalks on October 31st, 2009 07:19 am (UTC)
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

What is happening?
incongruity: 09. only human[info]fated_bliss on October 31st, 2009 07:23 am (UTC)
I am a fantard :(

Go read it.
樱樱美代子: down[info]fantasia0829 on October 31st, 2009 12:39 pm (UTC)
I'm actually very sympathetic towards how Sakura feels right now.

It's obvious she still has feelings for Sasuke, and it doesn't seem like anything will ever change the way she feels.

At the same time, she loves Naruto. Not as a woman, but as a life-long friend, a sister.

Both Sasuke and Naruto are people she will always love and treasure for life, though in different ways. She doesn't want to hurt either of them; she wants both of them to be happy.

That's why she was heartbroken when Sasuke left, because she knew leaving Konoha would forever change Sasuke for the worse and he would never be happy.

Her immense trust in Naruto and her belief that Naruto loved Sasuke the way she loves Naruto is also what made her extract the promise from Naruto, that he would retrieve Sasuke no matter what. She honestly thought that Naruto felt the same way about Sasuke's departure (and Naruto does feel that way), so she didn't think there would be a problem in extracting that promise.

However, in recent chapters, she's realized that in extracting that promise, she's hurt Naruto. Very badly. Because while Naruto does love Sasuke as a brother and honestly wants him to return to Konoha, the promise is also pushing Naruto to go over the limit. Naruto is hurting himself to retrieve Sasuke, and Sakura is finally just realizing that. Furthermore, she also realizes that it must be painful for Naruto to retrieve Sasuke for Sakura, because Naruto likes Sakura, and she's effectively asking him to bring back his rival in love.

Hence, I saw her confession to Naruto as a way to a) alleviate her personal guilt towards Naruto, and b) give him some sort of 'reward' in the form of herself.

It is really obvious that she wants the best for both Sasuke and Naruto, but the way she's going about it might not be the correct one.

You're right in saying that Sakura is a flawed character, and that this flaw of hers only makes her more human. However, remember that every character in the manga is flawed. Sakura just happens to be in the worst position for a female character in a manga where two pretty boys exist. It's easy to pair Sasuke and Naruto together, and then exclude Sakura from the relationship.

I honestly don't believe Sakura deserves any bashing for what she did. She loves the boys; she truly does. She only wants them to be happy.

She didn't confess to Naruto because she's fickle. It's because she loves them.
incongruity: 06. gray imagination[info]fated_bliss on October 31st, 2009 01:07 pm (UTC)
Haha, I definitely agree with you. Sakura did not confess because she was fickle. She used that fickleness as an excuse (which actually made me even more upset because it's the kind of stereotypical accusation pointed at women, and it's terrible that Sakura had to use it on herself). And of course, she loves both Naruto and Sasuke. I could never think otherwise. ;_; I still think she may have feelings for Naruto by this time - so yes, I do feel sympathetic towards her because she probably can't sort out her own emotions at the moment. And she probably doesn't know what to do, i.e she made a huge and really stupid mistake.

!! I agree with you on 'alleviating personal guilt'. That's so true.

I guess what really upset me about this chapter was the amount of unwarranted Sakura!stupidity involved here. She was definitely lying to a certain extent. Everyone present could tell how contrived it was - even if it was to protect him, she went about it in a totally wrong way. It was terribly insulting and hurtful to Naruto. And also manipulative, as she was expecting Naruto to reciprocate in the way she expected him to. 469 made her to look as though she completely didn't understand Naruto. Because ultimately, Naruto would have brought Sasuke back, promise or not. Naruto does love Sasuke more than Sakura.

She should've known better. :(

My point's mostly that I blame Kishimoto for Sakura's behaviour here. Because, considering how much she's matured over the series, it feels really OOC and disappointing, and I'm upset that Sakura has been made to look bad again and again. For no real reason. There is very little evidence in Part 2 to suggest that Sakura would do something so stupid to a companion she should love and understand enough by now. Plus, a lot of the time she's just being made use of as a feminine plot device which really doesn't sit well with me at all. :(

I also agree that every character has his/her flaws. The problem is that, most of them are painted as archetypal vices (e.g drinking, gambling, sloth, lustfulness etc). They are almost glamourized (lol Sasuke) or lovable (c'mon, I love Shikamaru's laziness as well). Sakura's faults are the most human of all because they're revealed through her interpersonal interactions. She;s so real it makes us uncomfortable. And I like it. I like it very much this way. Sakura's my fav because she's the most realistic.

My only problem is that I really don't know what Kishimoto is doing. Sometimes he just seems really sexist.

I just... want my Team 7 back together again, somehow. And for Sakura to kick serious ass because it's really about time.

Heh, I tend to get very nit-picky over representations of female characters and gender issues, hope you don't mind ^^;;
樱樱美代子[info]fantasia0829 on November 1st, 2009 08:06 am (UTC)
Well, it is true that Kishimoto-sensei is terrible with portraying females. So far, out of all the females he's created in Naruto, Tsunade is a gambler, Ten Ten doesn't appear often enough to have much of a personality, Temari is strong but also shown to have a malicious side, Hinata is emotionally-weak (her recent confession to Naruto was a breakthrough for her, but it was also ignored in the grander scheme of things), and Ino is fierce but quite next to useless too.

Finally, there's Sakura, who seems to be Kishimoto-sensei's favourite female character to torture.

Yes, it was obvious to everyone (maybe except Lee) that Sakura was lying when she said she loved Naruto. XDD It was obvious she was unsure about it herself, but still felt compelled to go on with it.

I wouldn't say it was OOC of her. Throughout the series, Sakura has been shown to be a nurturing force for both Naruto and Sasuke, and she has proven to be a source of strength and motivation for them both as well. Likewise, Naruto is also her pillar of strength. So when she confessed to him, it was somewhat like an act of self-sacrifice so that she'd be able to give him more strength, and also be able to rely on him more. It's actually a two-way thing for her.

Also, she probably didn't want to tell Naruto outright that it was alright, that he didn't have to retrieve Sasuke for her sake. Considering how male pride works, saying that outright would probably have hurt Naruto. So her confession was a roundabout way of telling him that.

Yes, Kishimoto-sensei is not the best at portraying females, but Sakura is his best attempt. I love her. :D
incongruity: 07. somewhere[info]fated_bliss on November 1st, 2009 12:11 pm (UTC)
Yeah. :( I actually liked Tsunade's 'vices'; they weren't construed as being a natural stereotypical outcome of her sex. And they showed that someone 'imperfect' like her is still someone worthy of admiration and respect as the figurehead and (presumably) most powerful position in Konoha. But gahhhh. Just thinking of Ino makes me cringe. I LOVED her character. I don't think she's really that useless, it's just Kishimoto and... yeah. She's been reduced to a commentator just like practically every other female in the series.

I guess I only found it OOC because most of the Sakura we've been seeing in Part 2 gives us no reason to think that she'd do something this stupid again. To Naruto, of all people. Gahhh.

Roundabout way, but how terribly cruel of her too ;__;

I love her, too. Despite all this. And even if I had to take this lousy confession in stride I would still support her, and hope for Kishimoto to do her character justice one day.
C.C. Sharumun: Hamasaki Ayumi[info]ccsharumun on October 31st, 2009 01:04 pm (UTC)
Thank you thank you thank you. Took the words right out of my mouth. I'm glad I'm not the only one who found this so senseless for Sakura's character that there's nothing to do but blame Kishimoto. This chapter was utter fail.

Is it alright if I link to you from here?
incongruity: 04. fantasie[info]fated_bliss on October 31st, 2009 01:13 pm (UTC)
Still holding out for some light at the end of the tunnel, though ;_; Kishi prove me wrong, please.

Sure! I'd be honoured. XD
Caithyra: Slayers - Filia[info]caithyra on October 31st, 2009 04:36 pm (UTC)
Heh, you were way more coherent than me.

There's like a million ways in which this scene could have been good, and very few ways to turn it bad, yet somehow Kishimoto managed to write the one and only outright horrible way.

Which is sad, because after the Sasori fight, I thought he had learned his lesson (but you know, we don't even know the names of Sakura's parents, while we know every other family except Tenten's).

Augh! It just makes me so frustrated. Especially when I see female fans internalise these messages and then turn on their own gender, calling everyone female weak, useless, manipulative and so on.
incongruity: 04. fantasie[info]fated_bliss on November 1st, 2009 12:17 pm (UTC)
There should totally be a 'feminist' support group for Naruto fans.

I agree! So much potential, and Kishimoto blew it.

I actually find it intriguing that we don't know the names of Sakura's parents. We only know about the parents of other characters because they were part of famous clans. The fact that Sakura's parents are 'unknowns' really underscores her 'average' status in just about every area, which is something I love because of how ordinary is she. And that's why I want her to shine all the more, to become every bit as outstanding as she deserves to be.

Definitely. :(
smurfette: superyasu[info]smurfette_love on October 31st, 2009 09:50 pm (UTC)
Great letter, Fated_bliss! But before I go on I must be honest with you. I'm not a fan of Sakura. I didn't like her in Part 1 mainly due how she treated Naruto in the beginning and the fact that she did nothing much except whine and cry at how useless she was. But I started to slowly grow to like her in Part 2 because she was strong and that Sasori fight was her shining moment. Showing me how strong physically she became.

Yes, this chapter pretty much destroyed her character and the progress she made since part 2 started. I felt so sorry for her. Kishimoto has seriously ruined her character. I have tried my utmost best not to bash her because seriously I do feel sorry for her. I also blame Kishi for making her this way.

I'm actually hoping for #1 to happen. Kishi is doing this on purpose. He deliberately had Sakura make the biggest mistake in her life by lying to herself and making a fake confession in the process hurting Naruto at the same time. Kishi is making her go through the lowest point in her life. I mean she's already in the most vulnerable state after what had happened to the village, Tsunade, and finding out that Sasuke joined the Akatsuki. She is so, so confused right now that she thought confessing to Naruto and getting him to release that promise will somehow make things a bit better. And then once she realizes that what she is doing is wrong and she had made a mistake, she will learn from this and become a better person. She'll, as you said, will blossom into a more awesome and better character. I'm HOPING that this is Kishi's intention! He wants to give Sakura some real harsh experience by destroying her character and then slowly start rebuilding her into a better character.

As for the Naruto the series, it does sometimes annoy me that most of the females characters are such weaklings and they always ended up as damsel in distress role. It sometimes pisses me off actually! And yet...it boggles my mind why I still am so much in love and obsessed with this series. I have been reading a lot of comments on forums and such that fans are giving up on reading Naruto because of the story has went downhill since part 2 started and especially what had happened in this chapter. Seriously, it pains me to read that. So I'm glad that you haven't given up on this series yet. And I admire you for that!! XD

Oh as for recommendations for anime/manga, you must have heard of Full metal Alchemist right? I bet you probably read it. That series have some ass kicking female characters! Just too bad it only comes out once a month. =( I have also been watching/reading Gintama. Story might not be as riveting but it's freakin' hilarious!! Some of the episodes seriously made me laugh!
The Vu-ster: ahaha[info]lone_child on November 1st, 2009 03:42 am (UTC)
I'm only here for the FMA comments. Fullmetal Alchemist is an excellent example of what a shounen manga should be with their female characters. THe author that treats the females characters well both physically and emotionally and allows them to develop even if they aren't the main characters. They have their moment to shine. Winry, Riza, Lan Fan, and of course motherfucking Izumi and Olivier.

Winry certainly isn't the powerful fighter, but the manga-ka managed to handle her emotional development well when it came to Scar and the death of her parents. The moment she had to confront it was extremely heart-wrenching and very human. Such a situation could have been executed very poorly too.

Then Izumi is one kickass and badass female, but she has serious emotional baggage over the loss of her baby and her mistake at doing human transmutation. For years, she would live with the consequences of her actions.

All those female characters had their problems and not one of them were really relate to love [of the romantic kind] for the most part (though if anything, it was loyalty).

But the manga-ka is female (although there are a lot of shoujo manga-kas that treat their female characters just as shitty as kishimoto does if not worse). But yeah, Kishimoto needs to take some tips from Arakawa.
smurfette: Jakenbuttdancing[info]smurfette_love on November 1st, 2009 07:00 am (UTC)
Hello lone_child! Agrees with your comment 120%! I love all of the females characters! But there is one that I particularly like and you forgot to mention her....it's Mei chan (Mei chang?) She's my most fave character in FMA! She can heal and kick ass too! And that cute little panda Xiao mei is just so cute!! Olivia, Lan Fan and Hawkeye would be my next faves! I do love Hawkeye for her loyalty to Mustang! And Lan Fan loyalty to Ling! I totally agree that Kishi should take some tips from Arakawa! XD
incongruity: 10. world of colour[info]fated_bliss on November 1st, 2009 11:58 am (UTC)
Yes! Xiao Mei is AWESOME. <3

You did mention Risa and Lan Fan's loyalty to their men. This is one point I'm fairly nit-picky about. If you think about it, both women only exist in the story to support Roy and Ling in their quests, which is quite unsettling... HOWEVER, though this complaint is definitely valid, I still love Hawkeye and Lan Fan. No matter how you look at it, they're really strong women themselves. At least they aren't voiceless/passive (Lan Fan does get a bit of development), and they know what they want. And their love simply wins my respect. (:

I also ship Roy/Riza and Ling/Lan Fan like nobody's business. XDDD
smurfette: tenipurichibi[info]smurfette_love on November 1st, 2009 01:31 pm (UTC)
yes, I agree with you, Hawkeye's and Lan fan's purpose in the story are to support Mustang and Ling quests. But the difference with FMA and Naruto is that these women can also kick ass at the same time!! They are not weak women who become damsel in distress and just stand around to wait for the hero to come save them! That is what I pisses me off about Naruto. Konan became a damsel in distress, Sakura screamed out Naruto's name when the village was destroyed by Pain are just some examples. XD

Plus, I also think of Hawkeye and Lan Fan as being there to guide these guys to their quest. One wrong step/move and they are there to bring them back to reality. A good example is what happened recently with Mustang wanted to kill Envy with his own hands and Hawkeye was there to stop him from going into darkness on his path to revenge.

I also ship Roy/Riza and Ling/Lan Fan! I also think Mei Chan/Al would make a nice pairing! XD
The Vu-ster[info]lone_child on November 1st, 2009 04:39 pm (UTC)
Glad to find fellow Lan/Fan and Ling shippers (thoughI sorta want some Greed!ling/Lan Fan to the side XDD) Mei/All would be so adorable.
incongruity: 11. yours but mine[info]fated_bliss on November 2nd, 2009 01:45 am (UTC)
EVERYONE is getting paired up in this series, POOR SCAR. XDD

Yes Greed!ling/Lan Fan would be all sorts of angsty wonder. I'm still holding out for something. Arakawa, don't play safe all the time~
The Vu-ster[info]lone_child on November 1st, 2009 04:36 pm (UTC)
Mei Chang is adorable <3 Xiao Mei kills me with her cuteness
incongruity: 08. simplicity[info]fated_bliss on November 1st, 2009 12:03 pm (UTC)
I agree. I hope that's Kishi's intention too (#1), but I'm seriously too disillusioned with him for now.

Haha! I'm exactly the same as you. I STILL love this series, despite the fact that the sexism pisses me off without fail week after week. I still like Naruto way more than I'll ever like Bleach, or most other titles, for that matter. (Which is a little frustrating.) I guess not giving up on the series has to do with the fact that I've already been following it for 6 years. That's quite a lot of time to be investing in a relatively active fandom. And I STILL want to see the kunoichi get their day. (((:

I LOVE FMA. Every single character is endearing. It has its faults, though (I suppose it's a little too optimistic/idealistic at times, but hey. It's still a beautiful story). And Gintama! I definitely want to try that when I have the time. (((: